Games Like Don't Starve

Fight, Farm, Build and Explore Together in the standalone multiplayer expansion to the uncompromising wilderness survival game, Don't Starve.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 57.2% ★, Survival 33.5%, Crafting 2.6%, Multiplayer 1.9%, Sandbox 1.5%

Why You'll Like It: It is the closest match by far, keeping Don't Starve's art style, survival systems, crafting, seasons, monsters, and improvisational sandbox feel while adding co-op.

You awake to discover yourself no longer in the company of good men or a fine seafaring vessel. Treasure... you remember something about treasure. Wayward is a challenging turn-based, top-down, wilderness survival roguelike. Explore, build, and most importantly survive in these unforgiving lands.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 39.1% ★, Survival 24.9%, Crafting 12.8%, Sandbox 7%, Roguelike 4.5%

Why You'll Like It: This top-down, systemic survival sandbox emphasizes permadeath, experimentation, crafting, and learning harsh mechanics in much the same spirit as Don't Starve.

A living world full of surprises, secrets and danger awaits in The Survivalists, an adventure-filled survival sandbox set in The Escapists universe. Explore, build, craft and even train monkeys with up to three friends in a desperate bid to survive. Have you got what it takes to be a Survivalist?

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 33.5% ★, Survival 23.9%, Crafting 15.8%, Sandbox 8.7%, Open World 5%

Why You'll Like It: Its cartoony island survival, crafting-heavy progression, hunger management, exploration, and playful-but-dangerous tone make it feel like a close cousin to Don't Starve.

Dig, fight, explore, build! Nothing is impossible in this action-packed adventure game. Four Pack also available!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 43% ★, Survival 19.6%, Sandbox 12.4%, Crafting 10.6%, Multiplayer 4.3%

Why You'll Like It: While more progression-driven, it shares Don't Starve's blend of resource gathering, crafting, base-building, exploration, bosses, and endless sandbox replayability.

Explore a vast cavern of creatures, relics and resources in a mining sandbox adventure for 1-8 players. Mine, build, fight, craft and farm to unravel the mystery of the ancient Core.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 33% ★, Survival 22%, Crafting 13.7%, Sandbox 10.8%, Open World 6.4%

Why You'll Like It: Its top-down procedural world, gathering-and-crafting loop, farming, base-building, and constant push to explore dangerous biomes line up very well with Don't Starve's appeal.

Build, quest, and conquer across an infinite procedurally generated world. Play alone or with friends as you establish a settlement and explore deep dungeons, fight monsters and bosses, mine rare ores, craft magical equipment, recruit specialists for your colony, and more!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 48.2% ★, Survival 16.9%, Crafting 10.4%, Sandbox 9.1%, Open World 5.2%

Why You'll Like It: Necesse blends top-down survival crafting, procedural exploration, base-building, and colony management into a sandbox that scratches a very similar survive-and-expand itch.

Fight and tame alien beasts, craft resources into menacing weaponry, befriend the outlandish locals, and go toe-to-chin with a world-domineering maniac.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 37.6% ★, Survival 20.5%, Crafting 12.7%, Sandbox 9.4%, Open World 5.9%

Why You'll Like It: It captures the same quirky survival-crafting energy with constant gathering, recipes, weird creatures, and a lighthearted tone over a hostile world.

Oxygen Not Included is a space-colony simulation game. Deep inside an alien space rock your industrious crew will need to master science, overcome strange new lifeforms, and harness incredible space tech to survive, and possibly, thrive.

Why similar: Survival 63.2%, Sandbox 15.3%, Open World 4.1%, Difficult 3.2%, Multiplayer 2.5%

Why You'll Like It: Though it is a colony sim, its Klei DNA shows in the art, humor, survival pressure, and delight in mastering complex systems to stay alive.

You’ve fled your home, only to find yourself lost in space with a damaged ship. Your only option is to beam down to the planet below, repair your ship and set off to explore the universe...

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 47% ★, Survival 17%, Sandbox 12.2%, Crafting 10.1%, Open World 4.1%

Why You'll Like It: Its 2D crafting, exploration, base-building, and procedural worlds give it a similar sandbox adventurousness, just with a bigger emphasis on interplanetary travel.

THE LONG DARK is a thoughtful, exploration-survival experience that challenges solo players to think for themselves as they explore an expansive frozen wilderness in the aftermath of a geomagnetic disaster. There are no zombies -- only you, the cold, and all the threats Mother Nature can muster.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 47.4% ★, Survival 29%, Crafting 6.6%, Open World 5.5%, Sandbox 4.4%

Why You'll Like It: It trades whimsy for realism, but the focus on solitary survival, scavenging, weather, and constant resource pressure matches Don't Starve's uncompromising side.

A brutal exploration and survival game for 1-10 players, set in a procedurally-generated purgatory inspired by viking culture. Battle, build, and conquer your way to a saga worthy of Odin’s patronage!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 41.5% ★, Survival 22.7%, Crafting 11.1%, Sandbox 6%, Open World 5.9%

Why You'll Like It: Valheim delivers the same satisfying rhythm of gathering, crafting, building, and surviving in a dangerous procedural world that keeps pushing you outward.

A rogue-like river journey through the backwaters of a forgotten post-societal America. Forage, craft, evade predators.

Why similar: Survival 62.6%, Crafting 16.8%, Adventure 5.9%, Indie 3.5%, Exploration 3.3%

Why You'll Like It: Its lonely, run-based survival loop of scavenging, crafting, managing hunger and weather, and adapting to an unforgiving world feels very close to Don't Starve's tension.

Project Zomboid is the ultimate in zombie survival. Alone or in MP: you loot, build, craft, fight, farm and fish in a struggle to survive. A hardcore RPG skillset, a vast map, massively customisable sandbox and a cute tutorial raccoon await the unwary. So how will you die? All it takes is a bite..

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 34.5% ★, Survival 33.4%, Sandbox 8.6%, Crafting 7.7%, Open World 6.5%

Why You'll Like It: If you love Don't Starve's brutal learning curve and emergent survival stories, Project Zomboid offers an even harsher sandbox built on planning and resource management.

Descend into the depths of an alien underwater world filled with wonder and peril. Craft equipment, pilot submarines and out-smart wildlife to explore lush coral reefs, volcanoes, cave systems, and more - all while trying to survive.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 41.8% ★, Survival 24.1%, Crafting 10.9%, Open World 5.7%, Sandbox 4.9%

Why You'll Like It: Its survival loop of gathering resources, crafting tools, building shelter, and venturing deeper into an unknown ecosystem mirrors Don't Starve's explore-to-survive structure.

The world is a vast, beautiful and dangerous place – especially when you have been shrunk to the size of an ant. Can you thrive alongside the hordes of giant insects, fighting to survive the perils of the backyard?

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 37.9% ★, Survival 31.2%, Crafting 11.5%, Multiplayer 5.7%, Open World 4.4%

Why You'll Like It: Grounded channels the same feeling of being small and vulnerable in a hostile ecosystem while emphasizing crafting, base-building, and learning creature behavior.

As the lone survivor of a passenger jet crash, you find yourself in a mysterious forest battling to stay alive against a society of cannibalistic mutants. Build, explore, survive in this terrifying first person survival horror simulator.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 47.1% ★, Survival 26.6%, Crafting 9.4%, Open World 5.5%, Sandbox 3.7%

Why You'll Like It: It mixes open-ended survival crafting, base-building, exploration, and sudden creature threats in a way that will appeal to players who enjoy Don't Starve's danger-driven pacing.

Plunge into the open-world survival simulation set in the extreme conditions of the uncharted Amazon jungle. Use real-life survival techniques to craft, hunt, fight, and gather resources, set a makeshift shelter, or raise a fortress. Survive alone or team up with your friends and challenge the jungle together.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 44.6% ★, Survival 25.8%, Crafting 9.9%, Multiplayer 5.5%, Open World 4.5%

Why You'll Like It: This is a more realistic take on survival, but it similarly revolves around learning deadly systems, crafting intelligently, and surviving a world that punishes mistakes.

“A real Gem” – Destructoid at E3 “Offers a different experience for zombie game veterans” – Co-Optimus“Has a lot more going for it than smashing brains and gory, red goo ... With a surprisingly deep crafting system” – GamesRadarYou're shipwrecked on an isolated island, a desperate castaway in a total freakshow world. How will you survive?

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 38.3% ★, Survival 36.4%, Crafting 15.1%, Multiplayer 3.7%, Open World 2.6%

Why You'll Like It: Its top-down perspective, scavenging, crafting, hunger management, and emphasis on making the most of limited resources make it a solid action-leaning alternative.

Take the role of a plane crash survivor stranded somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. Come face to face with some of the most life threatening scenarios that will result in a different experience each time you play. Scavenge. Discover. Survive.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 46% ★, Survival 25.3%, Crafting 10.6%, Open World 4.9%, Multiplayer 4.9%

Why You'll Like It: It is another strong fit if you want the isolated survival fantasy, with crafting, shelter-building, food management, and exploration driving every day forward.

The highly popular and quirky "idle game that you want to actively keep playing". Explore, craft, gather & manage resources, find secrets and build your base out of nothing! Buy land to explore and expand!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 44.1% ★, Survival 23.1%, Crafting 14.2%, Sandbox 7%, Multiplayer 2.5%

Why You'll Like It: It is much lighter and faster-paced, but its obsessive gather-craft-expand loop and cute presentation can appeal to players who mainly love Don't Starve's progression feel.

Raft™ throws you and your friends into an epic oceanic adventure! Alone or together, players battle to survive a perilous voyage across a vast sea! Gather debris, scavenge reefs and build your own floating home, but be wary of the man-eating sharks!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 42.6% ★, Survival 29.8%, Crafting 10.8%, Multiplayer 5.8%, Sandbox 4.5%

Why You'll Like It: Raft shares the satisfying loop of scraping by, expanding your home base, crafting smarter tools, and venturing into danger for the next crucial resource.

NEO Scavenger is a game where you must survive in the wasteland long enough to figure out who you are. Each turn, you must decide where to go, how to scavenge for supplies, and how to deal with anything and anyone you encounter.

Why similar: Survival 46.9%, Crafting 15.3%, Perma Death 12.5%, Sandbox 7.7%, Roguelike 6.1%

Why You'll Like It: It offers similarly desperate survival decision-making, where every item matters and improvising with limited resources is the heart of staying alive.

It's ten years since the infection started. Long-established settlements are collapsing, one by one, for unknown reasons. Survivors are running to the hills to escape, hoping for safety in remote places. As another refugee, you're here to carve out a new life for yourself - by any means necessary.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 52.6% ★, Survival 21%, Crafting 13.3%, Open World 7.5%, Exploration 4%

Why You'll Like It: Its top-down scavenging, crafting, base-building, and survival simulation create a scrappy sandbox that should click with players who enjoy Don't Starve's emergent play.

The Wild Eight is an intense survival action-adventure set in the frozen wilderness of Alaska. Team up with friends in online co-op or go solo, explore the mysterious land, craft weapons and fight to live another day.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 42.6% ★, Survival 28.4%, Crafting 8.8%, Sandbox 4.9%, Open World 4.8%

Why You'll Like It: This co-op-capable survival game leans into cold-weather resource management, crafting, and hostile exploration in a way that overlaps nicely with Don't Starve's harsher seasons.

Crash land on a hostile planet where you'll have to build the strongest defenses if you wish to live to escape from it. But be warned... this planet is merciless. Build strong, and smart; else physics may flood or destroy your only hopes of survival.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 41% ★, Survival 24.6%, Crafting 12.9%, Sandbox 11.5%, Open World 4.1%

Why You'll Like It: This 2D survival crafter emphasizes gathering, building defensively, and enduring increasingly dangerous nights, which taps into the same preparation-focused appeal.

Abiotic Factor is a survival crafting experience for 1-6 players set in the depths of an underground research facility. Caught between paranormal containment failure, a military crusade, and chaos from a dozen realms, the world’s greatest minds must survive against the universe’s biggest threats.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 40.2% ★, Survival 24.7%, Crafting 15.1%, Sandbox 9.3%, Multiplayer 4.3%

Why You'll Like It: This one shifts the setting to a bizarre sci-fi facility, yet its cooperative survival crafting and improvisational problem-solving hit a similar sandbox pleasure.

The cult classic open-ended wilderness survival roguelike taking place in the ancient North, iron-age Finland. Throughout the years, UnReal World has been praised for its incredible depth, realism, atmos and immersion. Lose yourself in the most intricate, detailed and enchanting iron-age game world.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 32.6% ★, Survival 20.9%, Crafting 12.1%, Sandbox 10.1%, Perma Death 9.3%

Why You'll Like It: This classic survival sandbox is one of the deepest pure survival sims on Steam, with brutal resource management and emergent stories that echo Don't Starve's systemic design.

A desert gardening survival game. Start from a tiny spring and cultivate a blooming garden. Explore a vast world amid the sands and uncover its mysteries. Can you defend against the relentless forces of nature and mysterious wraith corruption, to bring life to a dying world?

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 44.1% ★, Survival 24.7%, Crafting 15.8%, Multiplayer 7.1%, Exploration 3.8%

Why You'll Like It: Wildmender offers a gentler spin on survival crafting, but its exploration, resource gathering, and building up a livable space in a hostile world fit the formula well.

Crash-landed on a surreal, low-poly world filled with freakish inhabitants, choose between permadeath and non-permadeath modes and embark on an epic (and ridiculous) survival adventure. Will you manage to stay alive as you unravel the mysteries of Wrongworld and search for a way home?

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 45.7% ★, Survival 19.5%, Crafting 8.1%, Sandbox 7.2%, Perma Death 4.6%

Why You'll Like It: Its colorful alien setting, strange creatures, crafting, and survival sandbox structure make it feel like a rougher 3D riff on Don't Starve's weird wilderness vibe.

A vibrant blend of survival and action RPG for 1-10 players! Craft legendary items, grow your home base and embark on an epic journey through procedural realms to face towering creatures hel-bent on unleashing Ragnarök. Valhalla can wait, Einherjar!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 60% ★, Survival 26.3%, Multiplayer 6.6%, Exploration 3.7%, Indie 2.2%

Why You'll Like It: Its mix of gathering, crafting, base defense, and surviving cyclical threats captures some of the same time-pressure and preparation appeal as Don't Starve.

In This War Of Mine you do not play as an elite soldier, rather a group of civilians trying to survive in a besieged city; struggling with lack of food, medicine and constant danger from snipers and hostile scavengers. The game provides an experience of war seen from an entirely new angle.

Why similar: Survival 76.5%, Crafting 17.3%, Singleplayer 2.1%, Indie 2.1%, Simulation 2%

Interact with strange new worlds in a unique and tactile way, molding the environment itself as if it were clay in your hands. Build your base, master resource management, automate your production lines, and more as you unravel the mysteries of the universe, alone or with friends.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 40.5% ★, Survival 23.1%, Crafting 9%, Sandbox 8.5%, Open World 6.7%

CastleMiner Z is an infinite world filled with deep places to explore, and horrifying monsters to slay. Build structures out of blocks, craft weapons and tools from raw materials, and explore the vast and frightening world around you.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 44% ★, Survival 23.9%, Sandbox 8.9%, Crafting 8.8%, Multiplayer 4.5%

Choose one of the characters and start your journey. The game has many interesting things in store: building, crafting, puzzles, bosses, mystery, laughs, quests etc.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 41.9% ★, Survival 22.1%, Crafting 11.5%, Sandbox 7.6%, Multiplayer 5%

The only aim in Rust is to survive. Everything wants you to die - the island’s wildlife, other inhabitants, the environment, and other survivors. Do whatever it takes to last another night.

Why similar: Survival 35.4%, Open World Survival Craft 29.2% ★, Crafting 14.8%, Sandbox 7%, Open World 6.1%

You've inherited your grandfather's old farm plot in Stardew Valley. Armed with hand-me-down tools and a few coins, you set out to begin your new life. Can you learn to live off the land and turn these overgrown fields into a thriving home?

Why similar: Crafting 32.7%, Sandbox 25.1%, Multiplayer 18.1%, Open World 10.9%, Indie 5%

Craft The World is a unique sandbox strategy game, the mix of Dungeon Keeper, Terraria and Dwarf Fortress. Explore a random generated world populated by dangerous creatures, build a dwarf fortress, gather resources, and craft all the items, weapons, and armor you need.

Why similar: Survival 31.5%, Crafting 28.8%, Sandbox 21.8%, Open World 7.6%, Multiplayer 3.9%

Darkwood - a new perspective on survival horror. Scavenge and explore a rich, ever-changing free-roam world by day, then hunker down in your hideout and pray for the morning light.

Why similar: Survival 53%, Open World 15%, Survival Horror 8.2%, Exploration 8.1%, Adventure 7.4%

Build a fortress and try to help your dwarves survive against a deeply generated world. Keep your dwarves happy, grow their community and beware of digging too deeply. The deepest, most intricate simulation of a world that's ever been created.

Why similar: Survival 52.5%, Sandbox 26.8%, Crafting 5.2%, Simulation 3.9%, Moddable 3.5% ★

Now 20% More Evil with the Free Halloween update!

Why similar: Roguelike 28.3%, Survival 22.2%, Difficult 15.1%, Indie 11.3%, Perma Death 11.3%

Brave a savage and unforgiving procedurally-generated world where extreme weather and the nightmares of the dark are your greatest enemies. Alone or in co-op, survive, build, and explore to transform a cursed hellscape into your sanctuary of light.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 37.8% ★, Survival 21.2%, Crafting 13.4%, Sandbox 10.5%, Open World 5.2%

LOSE YOUR MIND. EAT YOUR CREW. DIE. Take the helm of your steamship and set sail for the unknown! Sunless Sea is a game of discovery, loneliness and frequent death, set in the award-winning Victorian Gothic universe of Fallen London.

Why similar: Survival 55.8%, Exploration 11.6%, Open World 7.5%, Roguelike 7.4%, Adventure 6.1%

A realistic open-world survival experience. After a harrowing plane crash, you find yourself stranded in the wilderness. Battling freezing temperatures and hunger, you face an unknown virus that slowly paralyzes muscles, leaving its victims motionless and at the mercy of the unforgiving cold.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 37.8% ★, Survival 24.3%, Crafting 10.7%, Sandbox 8.1%, Open World 6.5%

Radiation Island is a survival adventure game where you craft your own destiny in a huge open world environment. As part of the Philadelphia Experiment you have become stranded in a parallel, alternate reality. Discover this new and mysterious world, with all its surprises.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 48.8% ★, Survival 30.4%, Crafting 7.3%, Open World 4.3%, Adventure 3.7%

Dive into a freezing underwater adventure on an alien planet. Below Zero is set two years after the original Subnautica. Return to Planet 4546B to uncover the truth behind a deadly cover-up. Survive by building habitats, crafting tools, & diving deeper into the world of Subnautica.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 42.8% ★, Survival 23%, Crafting 8.7%, Open World 5.6%, Sandbox 5.5%

Card Survival is a card-based survival experience. Stranded on a desert island you must use your wits and skills to stay alive. Use cards and combine them together to explore, gather resources and craft useful tools.

Why similar: Survival 31.8%, Open World Survival Craft 28.2% ★, Crafting 15.3%, Perma Death 11.8%, Adventure 3.9%

Uncompromising Sci-Fi survival on Mars! Manage the entire colony single-handed! Craft, Research, Explore and Fight against evolving mutants. Vast open world and randomly generated levels to explore! Can you survive long enough to escape the horror?

Why similar: Survival 32.3%, Open World Survival Craft 28.9% ★, Crafting 14.6%, Open World 4.9%, Perma Death 4.4%

Escape to an enchanting, living sandbox surrounded by wildlife and nature. Scavenge materials and craft tools to turn your small cabin into a warm, well-supplied home. Survive by fishing, cooking and growing your own food. Be careful though, the forest is as dangerous as it is wonderful.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 40.5% ★, Survival 22.8%, Crafting 11.6%, Sandbox 8.3%, Open World 6%

CrossWorlds: Escape is a hardcore game in which you will have to deploy all your skills to survive in a huge open world that is susceptible to changes in weather, seasons and various natural phenomena.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 38% ★, Survival 21.3%, Crafting 12.7%, Sandbox 10.3%, Open World 5.9%

While searching for a new home, an unexpected failure in your ship has left you stranded on a planet surprisingly similar to Earth. Discover a vast open world, hunt for food, develop technologies, and build yourself a new home to survive!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 43.1% ★, Survival 23.4%, Crafting 13.3%, Open World 6.4%, Sandbox 6.1%

Cube Life: Island Survival is an open-world, block building, survival game, taking place on a beautiful remote island. Imagine being shipwrecked and stranded left for dead, with only your will to survive. You must explore, build, craft, and fight your way to stay alive.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 49.2% ★, Survival 17.3%, Crafting 9.9%, Sandbox 9.1%, Open World 5.1%

Fight, build, explore, survive, while the dynamic player-caused hazardous fog is slowly changing the rules of the world around you.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 40.4% ★, Survival 20.3%, Crafting 12.6%, Sandbox 10.6%, Open World 5.4%

7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first-person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 39.7% ★, Survival 33.4%, Sandbox 9.5%, Open World 6.6%, Multiplayer 5.2%

This "spaceship simulation roguelike-like" allows you to take your ship and crew on an adventure through a randomly generated galaxy filled with glory and bitter defeat.

Why similar: Survival 29.7%, Perma Death 24.4%, Roguelike 18.3%, Difficult 8.1%, Indie 5.9%

A sci-fi colony sim driven by an intelligent AI storyteller. Generates stories by simulating psychology, ecology, gunplay, melee combat, climate, biomes, diplomacy, interpersonal relationships, art, medicine, trade, and more.

Why similar: Survival 47.3%, Sandbox 18.8%, Moddable 16.7% ★, Open World 8.1%, Indie 2.8%

No Man's Sky is a game about exploration and survival in an infinite procedurally generated universe.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 46.1% ★, Survival 18.4%, Open World 8.2%, Sandbox 7.8%, Crafting 7.4%

Your fight for survival begins on the frozen shores of Tarvhas, where bitter cold and vicious creatures conspire to defeat the unprepared. Uncover the land’s dark history as you and fellow explorers traverse an unforgiving and hostile world to tame the Savage Lands.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 44.8% ★, Survival 23.2%, Crafting 10.3%, Sandbox 7.6%, Open World 5.4%

Embark on a 1-4 players Co-op survival adventure in an open world wilderness in search of a myth called the Lod Stone. Build your house, sow your crops, brew potions, tame a horse and discover powerful abilities. Venture into dangerous dungeons, fight unique bosses to find the Lod stone.

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 41.9% ★, Survival 22%, Crafting 11.3%, Sandbox 7.4%, Open World 6.2%

Explore, craft, and fight your way through uncharted islands — solo or with up to 4 players in co-op! Tinkerlands is an exciting survival adventure where you will build your settlement, craft useful tools to survive, and even use magic!

Why similar: Open World Survival Craft 39.3% ★, Survival 20.8%, Crafting 11.1%, Sandbox 10.8%, Open World 5.7%

Build and manage a medieval graveyard while facing ethical dilemmas and making questionable decisions. Welcome to Graveyard Keeper, the most inaccurate medieval cemetery sim of the year.

Why similar: Crafting 53.8%, Sandbox 27.8%, Adventure 5.2%, Indie 4.8%, Simulation 4.3%