- #1 Among Us
97% matchVery Positive92% of 725,594 reviews2018
Dev: Innersloth
Windows
Median: 12.0 hrsMean: 30.6 hrs≥1hr: 93%
An online and local party game of teamwork and betrayal for 4-15 players...in space!
Why similar: Social Deduction 68.8% ★, Casual 18.7%, Multiplayer 12.5%
Why You'll Like It: The quintessential social deduction game that forces players to identify traitors in their midst through communication and suspicion.
- #2 Town of Salem
96% matchVery Positive88% of 36,370 reviews2014
Dev: BlankMediaGamesPub: Digital Bandidos
Windows · Mac
Median: 8.7 hrsMean: 45.2 hrs≥1hr: 84%
Inspired by the party games Werewolf and Mafia, Town of Salem is a game of murder, mystery and deception.
Why similar: Social Deduction 58.1% ★, Casual 27.3%, Multiplayer 14.6%
Why You'll Like It: A classic social deduction game where players must use logic and deception to survive against hidden enemies.
- #3 Project Winter
96% matchVery Positive83% of 19,060 reviews2019
Dev: Other Ocean InteractivePub: Other Ocean Group
Windows
Median: 4.2 hrsMean: 23.6 hrs≥1hr: 84%
Project Winter 2.0: Cabin Fever is an 8-player survival and social deception game where teamwork is vital, but betrayal is inevitable. Face the wilderness, uncover traitors, and survive paranoia in this streamlined yet chaotic multiplayer experience.
Why similar: Social Deduction 63.3% ★, Casual 29.2%, Multiplayer 7.5%
Why You'll Like It: A survival game that heavily incorporates social deduction, requiring players to work together while identifying the traitors sabotaging the group.
- #4 Idle Heist
95% matchMostly Negative29% of 332 reviews2018
Dev: ChimpLabs
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 1.0 hrsMean: 13.8 hrs≥1hr: 51%
Idle Heist is an Idle/Clicker game where the objective is to get as much money from the bank vault before you get caught! Through the use of upgrades and skills, earn MILLIONS or even TRILLIONS of dollars. This is the perfect game to play whilst you work or do other tasks!
Why similar: Casual 78.7%, Multiplayer 21.3%
Why You'll Like It: Captures the theme of accumulating wealth through criminal enterprise with casual idle mechanics.
- #5 First Class Trouble
94% matchMostly Positive79% of 4,178 reviews2021
Dev: Invisible Walls
Windows
Median: 3.3 hrsMean: 8.1 hrs≥1hr: 86%
First Class Trouble is a party game where players must work together and against each other to survive a disaster. The goal is to shut down a deadly A.I. Some players are impostors, secretly playing as human-looking killer robots intent on betraying the other players.
Why similar: Social Deduction 63.7% ★, Casual 28.9%, Multiplayer 7.5%
Why You'll Like It: Players must cooperate to survive while identifying hidden impostors who are actively trying to eliminate them.
- #6 Supermarket Together
91% matchVery Positive95% of 88,985 reviews2024
Dev: DeadDevsTellNoLies
Windows
Median: 2.9 hrsMean: 8.5 hrs≥1hr: 79%
The multiplayer supermarket has arrived to your neighbourhood for free! Stock your shop space, unlock perks and franchises, hire employees or chase those pesky shoplifters. The more players, the more action!
Why similar: Simulation 82.6%, Multiplayer 9.3%, Casual 8.1%
Why You'll Like It: A cooperative management game that requires communication and trust to successfully run a business with other players.
- #7 Secret Neighbor: Hello Neighbor Multiplayer
90% matchVery Positive86% of 19,028 reviews2019
Dev: HologryphPub: tinyBuild
Windows
Median: 4.8 hrsMean: 31.0 hrs≥1hr: 84%
Hello Neighbor Multiplayer. Secret Neighbor is a Multiplayer Social Horror Game where a group of intruders try to rescue their friend from the Neighbor's creepy basement. Only problem is one of the intruders is the Neighbor in disguise.
Why similar: Casual 50.7%, Multiplayer 49.3%
Why You'll Like It: A multiplayer social horror game where one player is secretly the antagonist trying to stop the others from uncovering secrets.
- #8 Unfortunate Spacemen
89% matchVery Positive86% of 7,542 reviews2020
Dev: Geoff 'Zag' KeenePub: Deep Field Games
Windows
Median: 1.7 hrsMean: 15.7 hrs≥1hr: 64%
An online multiplayer game about shapeshifting deception and betrayal! As a hapless, brave spaceman employed by The Company you'll work diligently to defend and be rescued from failing outposts, but not everyone around you is who they claim to be...
Why similar: Social Deduction 87.4% ★, Multiplayer 12.6%
Why You'll Like It: Combines social deduction with first-person action, where players must identify the shape-shifting alien hiding among them.
- #9 Barotrauma
88% matchVery Positive94% of 84,235 reviews2023
Dev: FakeFishPub: Daedalic Entertainment
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 8.9 hrsMean: 54.3 hrs≥1hr: 91%
Barotrauma is a 2D co-op submarine simulator – in space, with survival horror and RPG elements. Steer your submarine, complete missions, fight monsters, fix leaks, operate machinery, man the guns and craft items, and stay alert: danger in Barotrauma doesn’t announce itself!
Why similar: Simulation 82.7%, Multiplayer 17.3%
Why You'll Like It: A cooperative submarine simulation where the potential for internal sabotage and betrayal creates intense social tension.
- #10 5050
89% matchVery Positive88% of 370 reviews2023
Dev: Follow the fun
Windows
Each time you press the button, it will either double or lose all the points you’ve put in. How much will you risk?
Why similar: Simulation 62.8%, Casual 37.2%
Why You'll Like It: A minimalist game centered on high-stakes gambling and risk, mirroring the binary choice of splitting or stealing.
- #11 Sim Companies
86% matchMostly Positive80% of 998 reviews2023
Dev: Sim Companies s.r.o.
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 1.2 hrsMean: 95.2 hrs≥1hr: 52%
Become a Business Tycoon. Build your own company from the ground up. Do business in a virtual economy with players all around the world! Gain valuable business skills for free. An advanced, proprietary, Economy simulation model is used to deliver the best gaming experience.
Why similar: Simulation 93.8%, Multiplayer 6.2%
Why You'll Like It: A complex economic simulation that focuses on capitalism and competitive market management.
- #12 Loot Box Simulator
87% matchMostly Positive79% of 112 reviews2018
Dev: Clickbait Studios
Windows
A satirical look at the current trajectory of the game industry. Open loot boxes, collect loot, equip cosmetics, face off against the dark lord, watch ads, take surveys, and slowly succumb to addiction.
Why similar: Simulation 100%
Why You'll Like It: Focuses on the gambling and risk-taking elements of virtual currency and item acquisition.
- #13 Crafting Idle Clicker
86% matchMixed49% of 899 reviews2020
Dev: Bling Bling Games GmbH
Windows
Median: 2.9 hrsMean: 43.1 hrs≥1hr: 70%
Craft a complex production line, earn idle cash and become an industrial tycoon!
Why similar: Simulation 46.1%, Casual 31.8%, Idler 22.1%
Why You'll Like It: Provides the satisfying incremental progression loop found in the idle aspects of the seed game.
- #14 Microtransaction Simulator
85% matchVery Positive86% of 839 reviews2017
Dev: chlsea
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 54 minMean: 5.7 hrs≥1hr: 46%
Live your wildest dreams by splurging on insane amounts of cash you wouldn't have in real life. Play for random number generated loot that is a reflection of the meaningless nature of this game and everything surrounding it.
Why similar: Simulation 100%
Why You'll Like It: A satirical take on modern gaming economies that aligns with the cynical humor of wealth-based idle games.
- #15 Revolution Idle
81% matchVery Positive86% of 10,404 reviews2025
Dev: Oni Gaming
Windows
Median: 17.3 hrsMean: 167.6 hrs≥1hr: 83%
Join an experience where each revolution takes you further into the unknown! Revolution Idle challenges you to multiply your accumulators to reach unimaginable heights. Will you manage to reach infinity?
Why similar: Simulation 47.2%, Casual 28.5%, Idler 24.4%
Why You'll Like It: A polished idle game that provides a deep, satisfying progression system for those who enjoy incremental growth.
- #16 Drugs and Crime Idle
84% matchMixed67% of 291 reviews2020
Dev: Roxy Constantine
Windows
Behind every great fortune, lies a great crime! Sell drugs, attack with your gang, gamble your CrimeCoins away and hope, that you get that rare item, finally. Free-to-play. Offline Progression. No Microtransactions except 2 optional DLCs.
Why similar: Simulation 42%, Idler 29.4%, Casual 28.5%
Why You'll Like It: A management-focused idle game that leans into the criminal underworld theme.
- #17 Tech Support: Error Unknown
84% matchMostly Positive74% of 635 reviews2019
Dev: Dragon SlumberPub: Iceberg Interactive
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 2.7 hrsMean: 3.5 hrs≥1hr: 80%
Things are not what they seem at your new tech support specialist job. While resolving customer issues, you soon find yourself in the middle of a conspiracy. Will you side with your employer, join a rogue hacktivist group bent on destroying them, assist the police or stand alone?
Why similar: Simulation 80.2%, Casual 19.8%
Why You'll Like It: A simulation game that captures the feeling of working through digital interfaces with a focus on narrative choice.
- #18 Money Simulator: Brokeville
81% matchVery Positive87% of 839 reviews2025
Dev: OrganicaPub: PlayWay S.A.
Windows
Median: 1.0 hrsMean: 2.2 hrs≥1hr: 50%
Welcome to the Brokeville! Grind your way to the top through jobs, deliveries, bicycle races, and risky crypto trades. Buy, customize, and sell cars & motorcycles for profit. Build your own businesses, manage them, and hire staff to grow your empire.
Why similar: Simulation 79.6%, Casual 20.4%
Why You'll Like It: A sandbox simulation that explores the pursuit of wealth and capitalism in a virtual world.
- #19 TIS - True Idle Simulator
82% matchVery Positive87% of 62 reviews2022
Dev: PhantomHeadache
Windows
How long can You do nothing?
Why similar: Simulation 57.1%, Casual 26.3%, Idler 15%, Multiplayer 1.6%
Why You'll Like It: A parody-heavy idle game that focuses on the core mechanics of incremental wealth generation.
- #20 Achievement Simulator
82% matchVery Positive82% of 101 reviews2019
Dev: Leeson
Windows
Ever wanted to know what achievement hunting is like? Earn money, buy games, and idle for achievements with the goal of reaching 100,000 achievements.
Why similar: Simulation 63.6%, Casual 36.4%
Why You'll Like It: A meta-commentary on gaming that uses simple clicker mechanics to reward the player.
- #21 Bitcoin Tycoon - Mining Simulation Game
83% matchMixed58% of 91 reviews2018
Dev: 99 Game Studio
Windows
Play as a new person who just get touched with the Virtual Currency area by starting mining in early 2014. Dig enough coins and expand your business, virtual currency exchange and complete trusts. Become the king of the whole bitcoin empire.
Why similar: Simulation 64.3%, Casual 35.7%
Why You'll Like It: A straightforward simulation that focuses on the theme of cryptocurrency mining and wealth growth.
- #22 Stocks
80% matchMixed52% of 64 reviews2025
Dev: envymydisease
Windows
A collector simulator and clicker where you earn rare items just by staying in the game. Collect stylized company “stocks,” track their value, join seasonal updates, and profit!
Why similar: Simulation 75.3%, Casual 13.3%, Idler 11.4%
Why You'll Like It: A trading-focused simulation that captures the volatile nature of virtual markets.
- #23 Lemon
78% matchMixed62% of 102 reviews2024
Dev: Trash Game Studio
Windows
Welcome to Lemon, the clicker game more addictive than cat videos! Click your way to Lemon glory, gathering Lemons faster than you can say "Lemon counter." Unlock mysterious inventory drops with golden Lemons, magic Lemons. Dive in and may the Lemons be ever in your favor!
Why similar: Casual 100%
Why You'll Like It: A casual, stylized idle game that offers a relaxing alternative to the high-stress social deduction games.
- #24 Beavers Be Dammed
78% matchVery Positive85% of 1,271 reviews2018
Dev: Wallflower Games
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 30 minMean: 2.1 hrs≥1hr: 24%
Beavers be Dammed is a two player local co-op game in which two beavers perform heists under time pressure to steal wood from a sawmill under crazy circumstances!
Why similar: Simulation 50.2%, Casual 34.6%, Multiplayer 15.1%
- #25 Trimmer Tycoon
79% matchMixed68% of 692 reviews2016
Dev: Improx Games
Windows · Mac
Median: 30 minMean: 4.6 hrs≥1hr: 29%
Trimmer Tycoon is a fast survival game. You’re the new owner of a beard-trimming salon - Shavy. Customers start flowing in with absurd wishes for their beards. Can you satisfy their beardy dreams and keep up with the ever-increasing rent?
Why similar: Simulation 67.5%, Casual 32.5%
Why You'll Like It: A management-heavy simulation that rewards players for optimizing their business operations.
- #26 One More 6ix
75% matchVery Positive98% of 107 reviews2025
Dev: Crazish Games
Windows · Mac
A semi-idle dice clicker where the odds rarely favor you. Risky offers, mysterious phone calls, unexpected debts. What are you willing to sacrifice to land nine sixes in a row?
Why similar: Simulation 62.5%, Casual 32.7%, Multiplayer 4.8%
- #27 Idle Game Simulator
76% matchVery Positive90% of 80 reviews2024
Dev: Dogloaf
Windows
Have you ever wanted an idle game without all the pesky obstructions like gameplay and graphics? Introducing Idle Game Simulator! Is it a game? No, it is a very serious and deep simulator. This is idle in its purest form, watch number go up without having to do anything at all!
Why similar: Simulation 50.9%, Casual 27%, Idler 22.1%
- #28 Unfair Flips
71% matchVery Positive90% of 2,131 reviews2025
Dev: HEATHER FLOWERS
Windows
Median: 1.6 hrsMean: 3.5 hrs≥1hr: 68%
A non-idle clicker game about flipping a coin that hates you. Starting with just a 20% chance of getting heads, can you get ten heads in a row?
Why similar: Simulation 53.8%, Casual 46.2%
- #29 Bitcoin Farm
77% matchMixed45% of 130 reviews2018
Dev: RewindApp
Windows
Median: 18 minMean: 10.7 hrs≥1hr: 35%
Become the new king of cryptocurrency! Bitcoin Farm is a clicker game where you will aim to undermine a maximum of Bitcoins!
Why similar: Simulation 64.3%, Casual 35.7%
- #30 A Mining Game
76% matchMixed66% of 234 reviews2019
Dev: AtlasPub: Trillium Studio Ltd.
Windows
An idle Mining Simulation game, Compete against other miners to reach the top of the leader boards, Build an army. Climb your way through the combat tower with friends. And compete in daily events
Why similar: Simulation 100%
- #31 Bitcoin Trader
77% matchMixed49% of 117 reviews2018
Dev: Gamesforgames
Windows
Median: 42 minMean: 13.3 hrs≥1hr: 47%
In this game, you have a fascinating journey into the world of cryptocurrencies. Make exchanges on the stock exchange, do airdrops, and of course extract the cryptocurrency from mining!
Why similar: Simulation 63.3%, Casual 36.7%
- #32 Zero IDLE
75% matchMixed70% of 370 reviews2020
Dev: ZeroWorldwide
Windows
Zero IDLE is an incremental (IDLE) game in which you can decide whether to make all of your way to the biggest number EVER by clicking, or by increasing your incremental production...or you can make the game to click for you...
Why similar: Casual 59.9%, Idler 40.1%
- #33 Lemon
74% matchMixed48% of 79 reviews2024
Dev: DZ Interactive
Windows · Linux
In the ever expanding cosmos of the known universe, in the slimmest of slivers, the confines of the confines, there is only... Lemon. Join the lemon brotherhood with a lemon dropped every 30 minutes, from heroes in mighty sagas, to far-reaching materials beyond the fabric of reality.
Why similar: Casual 51.2%, Simulation 27.8%, Idler 21%
- #34 Meth Master
74% matchMixed68% of 247 reviews2022
Dev: Oleh Baziv
Windows
Are you ready to build your own drug empire?
Why similar: Simulation 79.9%, Idler 20.1%
- #35 Pizza Clicker
72% matchMixed61% of 120 reviews2024
Dev: Bazura Games
Windows
PIZZA CLICKER. You get dropped a pizza every 2 hours 5 times per day. Your chance to try every kind of pizza in the world and share it with friends!
Why similar: Simulation 50.9%, Casual 29.1%, Idler 20%
- #36 Indie Dev Story
71% matchVery Positive84% of 109 reviews2024
Dev: CBgameDev
Windows
Indie Dev Story - Quit your job to become an indie developer and make your first game!
Why similar: Simulation 78.3%, Casual 21.7%
- #37 CasinoRPG
73% matchMixed63% of 314 reviews2018
Dev: GoldFire Studios
Windows · Mac
Median: 2.2 hrsMean: 165.2 hrs≥1hr: 64%
Play the tables or own the strip in this Vegas-themed MMORPG that merges role-playing, tycoon, city-building and casino games. Use your winnings in multiplayer casino games like slots, poker, blackjack and roulette as you rise from janitor to casino mogul.
Why similar: Simulation 66.6%, Casual 27.7%, Multiplayer 5.8%
- #38 Idle Research
69% matchVery Positive84% of 1,828 reviews2022
Dev: Considera Games LLCPub: Considera Core LLC
Windows · Mac · Linux
Median: 10.9 hrsMean: 78.0 hrs≥1hr: 78%
Idle Research is an addictive, resource management, incremental game with both idle and active playstyles. Research and craft colorful Flasks and Tubes to earn as much Energy as possible! Big numbers guaranteed.
Why similar: Simulation 68.3%, Idler 31.7%
- #39 Split Echo: Demo
70% matchVery Positive81% of 67 reviews2023
Dev: OneMac
Windows
Two minds. Two perspectives. One solution. Step into a cooperative puzzle experience where you and your partner see different sides of the same world. Communicate, connect the clues, uncover the truth.
Why similar: Casual 80.1%, Multiplayer 19.9%
- #40 Mini Thief
72% matchMixed61% of 1,252 reviews2018
Dev: Stranga GamesPub: GrabTheGames
Windows
Median: 1.8 hrsMean: 5.7 hrs≥1hr: 62%
Can you escape with the loot? Play as the Master Thief and steal as much as you can. Burgle houses in order to obtain some sweet, sweet loot but, be careful, do not get caught!.
Why similar: Simulation 51.5%, Casual 39.6%, Multiplayer 9%
- #41 Idle Dyson Swarm
69% matchMixed66% of 53 reviews2026
Dev: Blindsided Games
Windows · Mac · Linux
Ever wanted a Dyson swarm of your own? Now you can have one with just a few clicks! Manage a solar empire, produce bots which will make solar panels for you. Send your panels to the sun to generate energy and sell that energy to make money which you can spend on even more bots!
Why similar: Simulation 49.2%, Casual 28%, Idler 22.8%
- #42 Hacker Simulator: Free Trial
70% matchMostly Positive79% of 474 reviews2022
Dev: Save All Studio
Windows
Become a hacker and build your online reputation to the top by discovering a simplified and enjoyable version of real-life hacking methods. Complete contracts, buy new programs, upgrade your computer, crack wifi networks and infiltrate peoples or companies online systems.
Why similar: Simulation 75.1%, Casual 23%, Multiplayer 1.9%
- #43 Casino Roulette: Roulettist
68% matchMostly Positive78% of 150 reviews2025
Dev: KamaGames Entertainment Group LimitedPub: KamaGames Ltd.
Windows · Mac
Test your luck! Play casino roulette with stunning, realistic 3D graphics! Feel the risk as you dive into the casino atmosphere and hit the big time!
Why similar: Simulation 81.9%, Multiplayer 12.2%, Casual 5.9%
- #44 Gold
70% matchMixed46% of 74 reviews2024
Dev: 井盖工作室 Manhole Cover Studio
Windows · Mac
This is an idle game! You can randomly drop gold bags and gold when you idle! The value of gold depends on its weight! The heavier the weight, the rarer it is! Come and earn your first pot of gold in life!
Why similar: Simulation 49.7%, Casual 34.5%, Idler 15.7%
- #45 Rock Simulator 2
67% matchVery Positive92% of 542 reviews2023
Dev: vinoo
Windows
Median: 7.2 hrsMean: 109.5 hrs≥1hr: 77%
Unwind together in a peaceful idle adventure. Become a rock in a serene world, relax with friends in co-op, and watch nature unfold around you. Discover secrets and shape your environment at a soothing, idle pace.
Why similar: Simulation 48%, Casual 27.1%, Idler 19%, Multiplayer 5.9%
- #46 MakeThatMoney
73% matchMixed43% of 54 reviews2017
Windows
Median: 2.8 hrsMean: 4.7 hrs≥1hr: 89%
MakeThatMoney is a text based management game. You start with 500$, and need to find the best and quickest route to becoming a millionaire. What's the best job to work at, mini mart or office? Do you have the degree required to work in an office environment?
Why similar: Simulation 66.4%, Casual 33.6%
- #47 Curiosity
71% matchMostly Positive80% of 74 reviews2018
Dev: Nicholas Pellegrino
Windows
A simple world where the player is able to change things that are not supposed to be changed. Welcome to Curiosity, the game where you can hack. Try out different hacks, get creative, entertain yourself! And hey, maybe you'll find a secret or two along the way!
Why similar: Casual 100%
- #48 Snail Simulator
65% matchOverwhelmingly Positive98% of 1,535 reviews2023
Dev: Mr. Snail Dev
Windows · Mac
Median: 1.9 hrsMean: 81.8 hrs≥1hr: 64%
Have you ever wanted to be a snail? Now you can be! Explore the vast Snearth with snail friends! Join monthly Snail Parties! MMOS (Massive Multiplayer Online Snails)! BECOME a snail (in a simulation)!
Why similar: Simulation 59%, Casual 33.6%, Multiplayer 7.4%
- #49 Scritchy Scratchy
63% matchVery Positive94% of 4,396 reviews2026
Dev: Lunch Money GamesPub: Funday Games
Windows · Mac
Median: 7.1 hrsMean: 9.4 hrs≥1hr: 96%
Scritchy Scratchy is a super-satisfying scratch card incremental game. Buy stacks of scratch-offs, unlock auto-scratching, and chase massive jackpots. Will you play it safe or go all-in?
Why similar: Simulation 51.4%, Casual 24.6%, Idler 24%
- #50 Thief Simulator 2: Prologue
66% matchVery Positive84% of 1,713 reviews2023
Dev: CookieDevPub: PlayWay S.A.
Windows
Median: 1.0 hrsMean: 3.1 hrs≥1hr: 50%
Tired of political exploitation? Join me and let's rebuild our thieving business together! Let's steal cars, radios, and TVs - anything that catches your eye can be yours! Recall what it's like to be a thief in Thief Simulator 2: Prologue!
Why similar: Simulation 64.9%, Casual 27.3%, Multiplayer 7.8%
- #51 The Purge Dilemma
67% matchVery Positive85% of 302 reviews2023
Dev: deemaso
Windows
Do you have the intuition and cunning to successfully save yourself from the purges of a paranoid dictator? Prove your loyalty to the Tyrant in this social deduction game designed for 5-10 players.
Why similar: Social Deduction 88.8% ★, Multiplayer 11.2%
- #52 Crime Simulator
63% matchVery Positive83% of 5,381 reviews2025
Dev: CookieDevPub: Ultimate Games S.A.
Windows
Median: 6.5 hrsMean: 12.7 hrs≥1hr: 92%
You’re out of jail, but the debt isn’t gone. Sneak, steal, and break into houses solo or in 4-player co-op. Use lockpicks, sleeping gas, and brute force to complete jobs, outsmart security, and make enough money before time runs out. Will you pay back what you owe, or lose everything?
Why similar: Simulation 87.4%, Multiplayer 12.6%
- #53 Grass Cutters Academy - Idle Game
69% matchMixed61% of 71 reviews2021
Dev: ColloseusXPub: Phat Phrog Studios
Windows
Are you interested in gardening? painting? how about a mix of both? In Grass Cutters Academy you cut grass for money, spend that money on paint powered auto mowers that get faster, stronger and more efficient with each blade of grass cut
Why similar: Casual 76.4%, Idler 23.6%
- #54 Farm Empire
68% matchMixed55% of 189 reviews2023
Dev: Superpog ApSPub: Playtopia.com
Windows · Mac · Linux
Would you like to be the world's richest farmer? In Farm Empire, you'll start your own farm from scratch, but with the right strategy, you'll soon have an entire empire.
Why similar: Casual 71.5%, Idler 28.5%